Feeble attempt at being inflammatory. You know better.
Blond Adult Girl wrote:
They ARE melting, but its not going to destroy life as we know it!
It will destroy life as we know it. Ecosystems vave evolved to sustain themselves within a set of parameters, and temperature is one of the most important. A permanent change in temperature of 4 or 5 degrees (even 1 degree, which is a global mean, btw) can affect (decrease or increase in particular areas) crop yields, droughts, insect populations and vector born illnesses, and all the other elements of local ecosystems of which human societies are a part. Of course we will be affected.
Most predictions show that Africa and the Indian peninsula are going to be hardest hit, but who cares about them anyway, right? We will most likely be able to adapt well enough through technology to these changes, but we might not like the new world we're creating. And that says nothing for poorer nations with less economic and technological capacity. We are already seeing some effects, whether you "believe in" global warming or not.
-Do you honestly give a crap about a few lakes and polar bears?
-I told you: global warming exists, but its not going to kill us, and furthermore, we have no control over it. Volcanos contribute more to the earths global temperature then humans could dream of mustering. We have NO control over it. This is merely a natural increase in the earths temperature. The earths temperature has always ranged from 19-27 degrees celcius, and right now, we are at the current high of 27 degrees celcius. It will probably go down in a few years, and then all these nutbag environmentalists will scream "global freezing."
The weather is like quantum physics: you can only predict what it will do in the future. If we can't even determine what the weather will be like 2 weeks from now, how can we determine what it will be in 20 years?
Misanthrope FemaleFirst Senior Member (500+ Posts)
Joined: 20 Oct 2006 Posts: 617 Location: Out Of Range
Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:30 am Post subject:
One American Rover
Actually, no it's NOT a pile of crap.
And Bob- no one is denying that there's some climate change- but this doesnt automatically point to man made sources in order to tax us through guilt. There is also currently climate change on Mars. There was a period of much higher temperature during the medeval times. It's also interesting that industry increased MOST after WW2 and yet temperatures dropped for many years- so the man made CO2 relationship is not a clear cut one. DId you know that Volcanos produce more CO2 than all man made sources out together- including planes- cars factories etc etc. Things should be out into perspective. No one is saying we should do nothing about it- but the current leftie sandal wearing lenlitista are brainwashing too many young people in mainland Europe.
Correlation does NOT equal causation: this is usually very difficult for the pseudo scientists among us to fathom:
for example- in the month of October the entire population of Chinas intake of Mushrooms went up and in that same month people in the UK occurance of Asthma also increased- it doesnt automatically mean there's a link.
These SCIENTIFIC documentaries were shown on Chanel 4 recently
Try and QUESTION rather than believing like the heard. As Enviro-nut case lentilists or the cycling Nazis in Lycra are very much a new religion and anyone who questions their methods are heretics.
Chantelle- no one is saying it is NOT occuring- its just the causes amongst that are put in question.
One AMERICAN Rover- the IPCC is a political body filled mostly with managers and non scientific staff and personel. Just as the documentary states. They have a political agenda just like any other CORPORATE entity. I've dealt with this burecratic bunch of idiots-and they're a good macrocosm type representation of what the whole EU joke stands for.
I mention corporate- as that's EXACTLY what they're doing protecting their jobs, there are litterally tens of thousands employed trying to further propagate this myth and get more money off our taxes. It is currently a growth industry. They mostly believe it's true themselves. The documentry doesnt take anything as 'given' and doesnt assume anything- unlike alot of the drivle populated by the other side- it gives both sides of the argument. Please dont try to debate with me unless you've watched that documentary.
Please dont try to debate with me unless you've watched that documentary
That must make you the expert then.
Misanthrope wrote:
the IPCC is a political body filled mostly with managers and non scientific staff and personel.
nope wrong again. Although such a huge organisation needs a large support system the body who produced the report on Climate Change 2007 : The Physical Science Basis were most certainly not "mostly managers and non-scientific personnel"
"the report has been produced by about 600 scientists from 40 countries and was reviewed by 620 climate experts. The report was also reviewed, revised and accepted by representatives of 113 countries"
I suggest you debate this with the 600 scientists who produced the report.
Misanthrope wrote:
Enviro-nut case lentilists or the cycling Nazis in Lycra
And schoolyard name calling really does your "argument " no good at all. Exactly who are you angry with? Because you obviously are. Scientists? Green Activists? Or just anyone who is so obviously hoodwinked by this sinsiter global warming hypothesis. Conspiracy theory anyone? Misanthrope is ready to take your call.
One American Rover
Actually, no it's NOT a pile of crap.
And Bob- no one is denying that there's some climate change- but this doesnt automatically point to man made sources in order to tax us through guilt. There is also currently climate change on Mars. There was a period of much higher temperature during the medeval times. It's also interesting that industry increased MOST after WW2 and yet temperatures dropped for many years- so the man made CO2 relationship is not a clear cut one. DId you know that Volcanos produce more CO2 than all man made sources out together- including planes- cars factories etc etc. Things should be out into perspective. No one is saying we should do nothing about it- but the current leftie sandal wearing lenlitista are brainwashing too many young people in mainland Europe.
Correlation does NOT equal causation: this is usually very difficult for the pseudo scientists among us to fathom:
for example- in the month of October the entire population of Chinas intake of Mushrooms went up and in that same month people in the UK occurance of Asthma also increased- it doesnt automatically mean there's a link.
These SCIENTIFIC documentaries were shown on Chanel 4 recently
Try and QUESTION rather than believing like the heard. As Enviro-nut case lentilists or the cycling Nazis in Lycra are very much a new religion and anyone who questions their methods are heretics.
Chantelle- no one is saying it is NOT occuring- its just the causes amongst that are put in question.
One AMERICAN Rover- the IPCC is a political body filled mostly with managers and non scientific staff and personel. Just as the documentary states. They have a political agenda just like any other CORPORATE entity. I've dealt with this burecratic bunch of idiots-and they're a good macrocosm type representation of what the whole EU joke stands for.
I mention corporate- as that's EXACTLY what they're doing protecting their jobs, there are litterally tens of thousands employed trying to further propagate this myth and get more money off our taxes. It is currently a growth industry. They mostly believe it's true themselves. The documentry doesnt take anything as 'given' and doesnt assume anything- unlike alot of the drivle populated by the other side- it gives both sides of the argument. Please dont try to debate with me unless you've watched that documentary.
Scientists have been debating human made global warming since the 1970's and 80's, long before it became politicized. It doesn't change the science. This is an incredibly large and complex subject -- scientists who are experts in the field have debated it to death and come to a majority conclusion (many times): We humans are largely responsible for global warming. Nothing that is said here is going to change facts or scientific consensus, including a documentary on Channel 4, I'm afraid. I encourage people to look into the facts, educate themselves and make their own determination, just as you are doing, but really it's impossible for a layperson or even a scientist outside his/her area of expertise to be fully in command of all the facts and concepts. Consequently most people have to put a certain level of trust in the scientific community as a whole. They are the most objective and rigorously analytical community of professionals out there, so you are in good hands.
The facts on which you are basing your argument and skepticism are incorrect. For example, you said: "Did you know that Volcanos produce more CO2 than all man made sources out together- including planes- cars factories etc etc."
No, volcanoes don't even come close. Volcanoes produce 130 million tons of CO2 per year. In 2005 industry produced 27 billion tons of CO2.
Moreover, the effect on global warming by a volcanic eruption is only temporary, lasting several years at most.
To be frank, this conversation has lost my interest. A more fertile area for debate is: "What are we going to do about our effects on global warming? What's realistic? Where should our priorities lie in terms of technological innovation and resource allocation?" I think those are the exciting areas. I do agree that activists are using global warming as some kind of scare tactic for political reasons or because of lack of expertise. Global warming has taken center stage as the "environmental crisis of our time and of our children's time." That is a political movement, but so long as the debate remains close to the science, I'm willing to take it, because it encompasses and brings with it the solutions to many other problems and challenges we face, such as green energy/renewable energy, particulate air pollution, acid rain and water pollution, public health, etc.
Joined: 18 Jan 2007 Posts: 17121 Location: aiyeeee....dat good pie!
Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:18 pm Post subject:
Lena wrote:
They've proven global warming is happening .................there's even a hole in the ozone layer.
Don't know why conservatives deny that it's happening .......really dumb to ignore such a serious problem
What will it take to wake them up , some eco disaster?
Lena, American Conservative politics believes that if big business benefits, everyone benefits. Unfortunately, business operates on a profit motivation, thus the interests of all cannot be at there core operational policies. Big business has the money, lawyers, time and resources to twist and manipulate scientific data to serve their purposes, which is to maximize shareholder profits, and land those massive golden parachute deals for CEO's while workers pension funds are embezzled and drained dry. Another point lost on hard core conservatives is that things go in cycles. While the hog may be ripe for slaughter now (financially speaking), who is minding the pen for future pigs? There is nothing wrong with climbing the ladder of success, but if you close the door behind you, the future is screwed, and that is the problem with conservative policy.
the IPCC is a political body filled mostly with managers and non scientific staff and personel.
nope wrong again. Although such a huge organisation needs a large support system the body who produced the report on Climate Change 2007 : The Physical Science Basis were most certainly not "mostly managers and non-scientific personnel"
"the report has been produced by about 600 scientists from 40 countries and was reviewed by 620 climate experts. The report was also reviewed, revised and accepted by representatives of 113 countries"
+1 The popular media gives different figures for the number of expert scientists who wrote and reviewed the final draft. This source lists an even higher number:
New Scientist is sh1t anyway right? Sloppy reporting. It was a lot anyway. The authors are listed on the actual reported for anyone who wishes to tally them up.
Here's a list from the one of the working groups (Misanthrope, you might find this of value):
Anyone can check the affiliations of these people. I did searches on a random sample of them -- they are all environmental scientists with academic or governmental affiliations.
Hear hear - what greater thing do we have but this world that sustains us? We should be showing it the respect it deserves or the consequences will be dire. There is no doubt that there is natural cyclical changes to the earth, but I guess what people are saying is that we may have an opportunity to see those changes not happen as abruptly if we are more thoughtful about how we treat the planet. Humans have played a tremendous role in changing the environment to suit their needs and when we do we shift increasingly away from the balance that has basically allowed us to thrive.
Interesting points above about volcano's. We should also see an increase in both volcanic activity and earthquakes as a result of the environmental changes that are occurring. As the ice melts it changes points of pressure and some areas will 'pop' back up once that pressure is released. The popping back up might be subtle by the earth's standards, but what is subtle to the earth is not necessarily experienced as subtle by the creatures that exist upon it.
Anyone interested in a beautiful book for their children, which is wonderfully illustrated and very poignant at the same time, and teaches them about what can happen when things get out of balance and ends happily with a nice balance should check out:
In the 1970s the scientific community were predicting 'global cooling' with the same certainty that they are predicting global warming today. It's all a scam, a con game, a racket.
Global warming is happening - how much or not is directly attributable to humans is what people are debating, but it is happening and it is happening at an accelerated rate and it will change many people's lives. It has already been changing people's lives through an increased incidence in natural disasters.
The primary reason it is being called a scam is because the environmentalists got so desperate for people to actually pay some attention to the issue that they put it forward in such a way that this modern world of ours can care about and understand - and that is that in terms of cost. When prevailing powers saw the potential for high cost and then the potential to make some money out of it they took notice, but not before. Now that is a sad indication of the warped and f*cked up, souless and greedy values we have been conditioned to accept.
Site Map
FAQ
Usergroups
Search
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Register
My Profile Space
Sloppy reporting. It was a lot anyway. The authors are listed on the actual reported for anyone who wishes to tally them up.