Juche: An Atheistic Government/Political Philosophy

[myron myron]

There is a distinctly and uniquely atheistic political philosophy governing a country in the world today, North Korea.

"Juche" is the only government-authorized ideology in North Korea, to the point of excluding all other religions. "Juche" means "self-reliance" in the Korean language. Some writers classify Juche (sometimes called "Kimilsungism") as a North Korean form of Marxist Communism. Juche began in the 1950s and is the official philosophy promulgated by the North Korean government and educational system. Its promoters describe Juche as simply a secular, ethical philosophy and not a religion. But from a sociological viewpoint Juche is clearly a religion, and in many ways is even more overtly religious than Soviet-era Communism or Chinese Maoism.

Certainly there are more "followers" of Juche, by nature of their nationality, than there are Jews or Jains. There are more than 25 million Juche adherents, essentially the entire population of North Korea, and there are centers in India, Australia, Europe and Japan. Although Juche has only a nominal presence outside of North Korea, it has so many adherents, is so influential in their lives, and is so different from any other religious system, that Juche merits recognition as a statistically significant distinct religion.

Although Juche is historically derived, in large part, from Soviet and Chinese Communism, today's Juche has developed into a distinct, unique system, and has officially repudiated its Marxist-Leninist roots. While some classify Juche as a highly "heretical" subset of Communism or general secularism, to do so today is no more accurate than continuing to classify Buddhism as a Hindu sect.

The tenets of Juche are largely based on the thoughts and writings of the late North Korean dictator, Kim Il Sung, and his successor and son, the present North Korean dictator, Kim Jong Il:

On the Juche Idea (thoughts and writings of Kim Il Sung):
1.The Origin of the Juche Idea: http://www3.cnet-ta.ne.jp/j/juche/pdf/e-works1.pdf
2.The Philosophical Principle of the Juche Idea: http://www3.cnet-ta.ne.jp/j/juche/pdf/e-works2.pdf
3.The Socio-Historical Principles of the Juche Idea: http://www3.cnet-ta.ne.jp/j/juche/pdf/e-works3.pdf
4.The Guiding Principles of the Juche Idea: http://www3.cnet-ta.ne.jp/j/juche/pdf/e-works4.pdf
5.The Historic Significance of the Juche Idea: http://www3.cnet-ta.ne.jp/j/juche/pdf/e-works5.pdf

The Juche Philosophy Is an Original Revolutionary Philosophy by Kim Jong Il (1996): http://www.cnet-ta.ne.jp/juche/PDF/ekimjongil01e.pdf

More writings on Juche: http://www.cnet-ta.ne.jp/juche/index_works_e.htm

It would behoove those who wish to live under an atheistic government and political system to consider moving to North Korea and embracing Juche.

Juche represents the logical conclusion of atheism, as simply another religion.

[Jane_]

The tenets of Juche are largely based on the thoughts and writings of the late North Korean dictator, Kim Il Sung, and his successor and son, the present North Korean dictator, Kim Jong Il

Based on the thoughts of two dictators?

Its a totalitarian regime myron. Why do you think that is "the logical conclusion of atheism"?

Was the Inquistion the logical conclusion of Christianity?

[myron myron]

If you read their thoughts setting forth their atheistic political ideology, they are not dictatorial. That's the point.

The logical conclusion of an atheistic government/political ideology is de facto an atheistic religion, which history has shown can only be effectuated in practice by dictatorship with a cult of personality of the dictator(s).

Atheistic government has been and will be dictatorial because there is no way to disabuse the vast majority of people of their belief in a higher power without destroying their freedom of conscience.

The Inquisition was not the logical conclusion of Christianity because it involved only Roman Catholicism, which is just one branch of Christianity. Greek/Eastern Orthodox Christianity had no involvement in the Inquisition or in any other misdeeds of the Roman Catholic Church, having broken off from Roman Catholicism in the Great Schism of 1054. Of course many Christian-bashers are either clueless of this fact or conveniently ignore it, choosing instead to smear an entire religion based on the actions of a branch thereof centuries ago. The logical conclusion of Christianity is reflected in the pluralistic democracies of the UK, Western Europe and the U.S., among other democratic countries that protect freedom of conscience and civil liberties under rule of law.

But this thread is not about Christianity; there are numerous threads in this forum about Christianity. This thread is about atheistic government/political ideology in practice today and throughout history.

Can you name any atheistic government/political ideology actualized at any time in history that was not dictatorial and not based on cult of personality of the dictator(s)?

[The Colonel]

The religious fanatic trying to defame atheists.

He's a lost cause.

[cosmicB]

Quoting: "The Inquisition was not the logical conclusion of Christianity because it involved only Roman Catholicism."



Actually the Inquisition targeted ALL faiths.. It terrorized and forced non-believers to become part of Christianity, or be imprisoned for life, or slaughtered by being burned alive, or their heads chopped off... But now days the American Inquisition just mass-bombs them into bits of quivering chunks of meat, and bits of shattered bone, with their state of the art sports WMD's...

[myron myron]

Quoting: "The Inquisition was not the logical conclusion of Christianity because it involved only Roman Catholicism."

Actually the Inquisition targeted ALL faiths.. It terrorized and forced non-believers to become part of Christianity, or be imprisoned for life, or slaughtered by being burned alive, or their heads chopped off... But now days the American Inquisition just mass-bombs them into bits of quivering chunks of meat, and bits of shattered bone, with their state of the art sports WMD's...

I meant that it was perpetrated by Roman Catholics only, not all Christians.

But this thread is not about Christianity; there are numerous threads in this forum about Christianity.

This thread is about atheistic government/political ideology in practice today and throughout history.

Can you name any atheistic government/political ideology actualized at any time in history that was not dictatorial and not based on cult of personality of the dictator(s)?

[Gibbous Moon]

A lot depends on your definition of atheistic government. Whether you only class those constitutions that are explicitely atheistic from the outset or whether you include those constitutions that are secular and don't institute an established religion and / or those that are de facto atheistic. Do you define atheism as a rejection of the existance of a deity or merely a system that does not require a deity to be actively involved in the set up or running of the system?

Atheism has been for a long time the philosophy that dare not speak its name. In most parts of the world it has been a capital crime to profess atheism until recently, in some places I think they'd find away to execute you if you made too much noise about it.


It's difficult to find examples of explicitly atheistic governments or constitutions that were not the successors to pretty autocratic governments themselves. The classic example is Communist Russia. Autocratic regimes tend to require replacement by autocratic regimes. The logical consequence of a nation's society is that they create a government that suits it. As autocratic regimes tend to crack more often than their more mutable alternatives they tend to change through revolution. In Britain I don't need to overturn the whole system of government in order to make things more socially just, freer or whatever. I can nudge the system along using my vote. In autocratic states, religious or otherwise, I have to get rid of the whole system to effect any change. Therefore you tend to get more modern, secular system parachuted in on top of older, defunct theistic systems but they still require to be autocratic to maintain a hold on power.

Iraq (pre Second Gulf War) and Iran were both pretty intolerant and autocratic states, one atheistic the other theistic. What does this say about the logical conclustion of religion or non-religion?

One could make an argument that the US constitution is atheistic; in that it is secular (establishing no religion) and does not require recourse to a religious philosophy for its validation.

One could argue that the UK is now a de facto atheistic constitution. We've certainly objected to the divine right of kings a few times in the not so recent past.

Equally one could make a case that the Roman Republic was a de facto atheist state as its ruling classes in the main did not actually believe in the Gods.

The passage in Plato's Republic about the Gold, Silver and Bronze people is instructive on the use of religion in creation myths and their use in bolstering the State.

I don't think that atheism can ever be a surrogate religion or a quasi-religion. Religions, by their very nature, require an act of faith or certainty without evidence. Atheism requires no such faith and in fact requires that you are uncertain without evidence. Atheism seeks to understand the world through rational means and thinks that all phenomena are natural; religion explains the world through mysticism and recourse to the super-natural.

GM

[myron myron]

The religious fanatic trying to defame atheists.

He's a lost cause.

You don't even know what "defame" means.

This is an adult thread; it's not for your kind.

Go and play in the sandbox where you can argue in the only way you are capable of arguing: by throwing mud.

[myron myron]

A lot depends on your definition of atheistic government. Whether you only class those constitutions that are explicitely atheistic from the outset or whether you include those constitutions that are secular and don't institute an established religion and / or those that are de facto atheistic. Do you define atheism as a rejection of the existance of a deity or merely a system that does not require a deity to be actively involved in the set up or running of the system?

I define atheism as an express and affirmative denial and rejection of the existence of a deity or higher power.

I definie atheistic government as a governing political ideology that is explicitely atheistic from the outset.

Ancient Rome was not atheistic; it was pagan.

And the UK political system today is not even secular, much less atheistic. There is a state religion, the Church of England, headed by the head of state, the Queen.

[The Colonel]

The religious fanatic trying to defame atheists.

He's a lost cause.

You don't even know what "defame" means.

This is an adult thread; it's not for your kind.

Go and play in the sandbox where you can argue in the only way you are capable of arguing: by throwing mud.

Wrong.

It is the lower ranks who sling mud. The higher ranks throw heavy artillery!

[cosmicB]

You can try to define atheism till the cows come home, and Niagara Falls freezes over, but all you'll have is crap where there wasn't anything till you started yapping about something that isn't... Atheism isn't religion.. Atheism is the absence of religion... "Atheism" is just a religious-label for people who do Not take any stock in anything religious... They are merely good people living life as it was born to be lived... So what if you can't convert them to your religious insanity..? So what!.. Just leave them be... You are not their master... They live life as they choose... Why does the whole world have to live life like America lives it..? We don't believe in you silly gods and goofy ceremonies... Leave the many little cultures be to live life as they choose... One day you will see that all your silly religions are essentially just bullshit, anyway... Stop wasting our time with your mindless religious drivel that came from a goofy story book written by two . European kings back in the 700's... Why must the whole world be insane just cuz you American are..?


Bottom line is: Religions decree that good life starts After death... So you religious folk are all hating this life, and loving what isn't.. and are trying desperately to infect the rest of us with your mental disease... is how common diseases spread... Your religions are essentially only disease packets of insatiable money hungry parasites hiding within your religion's HQ's... It's all just a massive global scam so mindless lazy slobs can live in luxury without needing to work...

[myron myron]

You can try to define atheism till the cows come home, and Niagara Falls freezes over, but all you'll have is crap where there wasn't anything till you started yapping about something that isn't... Atheism isn't religion.. Atheism is the absence of religion... "Atheism" is just a religious-label for people who do Not take any stock in anything religious... They are merely good people living life as it was born to be lived... So what if you can't convert them to your religious insanity..? So what!.. Just leave them be... You are not their master... They live life as they choose... Why does the whole world have to live life like America lives it..? We don't believe in you silly gods and goofy ceremonies... Leave the many little cultures be to live life as they choose... One day you will see that all your silly religions are essentially just bullshit, anyway... Stop wasting our time with your mindless religious drivel that came from a goofy story book written by two . European kings back in the 700's... Why must the whole world be insane just cuz you American are..?

Bottom line is: Religions decree that good life starts After death... So you religious folk are all hating this life, and loving what isn't.. and are trying desperately to infect the rest of us with your mental disease... is how common diseases spread... Your religions are essentially only disease packets of insatiable money hungry parasites hiding within your religion's HQ's... It's all just a massive global scam so mindless lazy slobs can live in luxury without needing to work...

Go troll other threads with your twisted incoherencies.

[myron myron]

The religious fanatic trying to defame atheists.

He's a lost cause.

You don't even know what "defame" means.

This is an adult thread; it's not for your kind.

Go and play in the sandbox where you can argue in the only way you are capable of arguing: by throwing mud.

Wrong.

It is the lower ranks who sling mud. The higher ranks throw heavy artillery!

Judging by your posts in this forum, you must be in "the lower ranks" because all you do is sling mud.

[Fred75]

Atheistic government has been and will be dictatorial because there is no way to disabuse the vast majority of people of their belief in a higher power without destroying their freedom of conscience.

That would make for an excellent signature!

[The Colonel]

Atheistic government has been and will be dictatorial because there is no way to disabuse the vast majority of people of their belief in a higher power without destroying their freedom of conscience.

That would make for an excellent signature!

Says the thicko.