Does a potential husband have a right to know?

[ZiaAries]

Fred, I said if he supported the abortion. There are men that don't want to be fathers and they ask and want the woman to get a abortion or they say they will not be forced to be a father. Now Fred, answer my question about 2-way honesty and revealing past decisions like abortion. Does he not owe her the same disclosure that she owes him?????

Yes and no.
Yes if he feels he needs to be honest. I can see your position.
No, because he is not the one that actually committed the act.

Fred, there are times when I read what you write and I think it would be awesome to have a partner with loyal values like yours. You've made me think that you honor your wife BUT, with this response from you, as many others, I see that you are no different than any other lying shithead man and "whats good for the goose is not good for the gander" ... or so they say. YOU have double standards!

[Cambridge]

To me you’re all correct. That’s because the fact of the abortion is separate from how the man feels about it, as you both have shown. I believe that, yes, a man has an obligation to tell his prospective wife that he and another woman had had an abortion (providing of course he knew about it). Then, he can have that other discussion, telling her how he felt about it. He can tell her he opposed it, or he can tell her he supported it, and the discussion goes on from there. But, he has an obligation to reveal it.

[ZiaAries]

Cambridge, If I was asked this question and I answered him, I, in return expect his reply to the same question, with honesty. It actually would make a difference to me how he's answered, but if would not mean that he and I could not reach a decision for our relationship. Past mistakes or choices does not have to be the "end all" to the future. We change. Our opinions change with growth. What I am trying to get across is, it must be an equal and balanced relationship with NO double standards. A man would be lying to me if he gave the response that Fred gave. If he took the GF or woman to the clinic, paid for it, encouraged it, supported it, then he had 50% this decision. It was not the ultimate decision of the female.

Fred, if you think it was the woman's decision, then don't complain about Child Support payments or equal right anymore for the man.

[Joe Blob]

I don't know about a "right" to know, people do have a right to privacy, but on the other hand, it would be a strange relationship to keep such a thing from a partner.

[Cambridge]

Cambridge, If I was asked this question and I answered him, I, in return expect his reply to the same question, with honesty. It actually would make a difference to me how he's answered, but if would not mean that he and I could not reach a decision for our relationship. Past mistakes or choices does not have to be the "end all" to the future. We change. Our opinions change with growth. What I am trying to get across is, it must be an equal and balanced relationship with NO double standards. A man would be lying to me if he gave the response that Fred gave. If he took the GF or woman to the clinic, paid for it, encouraged it, supported it, then he had 50% this decision. It was not the ultimate decision of the female.

On all of that I agree. I am trying to be purely analytical…not taking sides in the unending debate of the sexes. If you’ve (not you, but “one”) had an abortion, or participated in an abortion, or saw your fetus aborted when you didn’t agree, you should tell about it, and, wouldn’t you agree, talk about your feelings about it. I respect, honor and totally agree with what you have said about hearing him/her out, about how people can change, and how yours and her (yours and his, in your case) relationship should be totally on its own merit.

But I fail to see how Fred put you in a corner. He went to one corner:

“If he were upset at the other woman for killing his child... sure. It tells a lot to the new one.”

and you went to another side:

“What about him supporting the other woman's decision for abortion? I think the potential wife has the right to know that as well just as you agreed that the potential husband had a right to know. Honesty goes both ways or is this one-side?”

Granted, Fred sometimes makes his points like he was a hairy-backed gorilla but he’s making some very good points. So are you. I'm just trying to point the middle ground. When I was in graduate school I had a debating professor who used to say, “you two are simply talking past each other.” What he meant was, you are not logically disagreeing, but nonetheless having a hostility moment. Both of you are saying: what a good thing it is that you can have a free and open dialogue about why you feel the way you do. You can say, ‘Hon, I had an abortion (male or female) and here’s how I feel about it.’ S/He says: ‘Here’s how I feel about it.’ If there’s real love between them, I think there’s going to be flexibility between/among them. But at least it's a dialogue that results in understanding.

Or, am I wrong?

Incidentally, yer Joe...I'm making the same assumption.

[Fred75]

Fred, I said if he supported the abortion. There are men that don't want to be fathers and they ask and want the woman to get a abortion or they say they will not be forced to be a father. Now Fred, answer my question about 2-way honesty and revealing past decisions like abortion. Does he not owe her the same disclosure that she owes him?????

Yes and no.
Yes if he feels he needs to be honest. I can see your position.
No, because he is not the one that actually committed the act.

Fred, there are times when I read what you write and I think it would be awesome to have a partner with loyal values like yours. You've made me think that you honor your wife BUT, with this response from you, as many others, I see that you are no different than any other lying shithead man and "whats good for the goose is not good for the gander" ... or so they say. YOU have double standards!

I have always had "double standards"!
Because men and women are not equals.
I cant have an abortion.
I cant lie about who the father of the child is.
The list goes on.

Your problem is you cant accept the fact that those differences impart different RESPONSIBILITIES for women.
I can and therefore PLACE those responsibilities on you women.

[ZiaAries]

Creep!

A Scum sucking barnacle that will not assume any responsibility because why should you when you can BLAME it on a woman. Little boy.

You Fred, are inferior to ME!

[Fred75]

Creep!

A Scum sucking barnacle that will not assume any responsibility because why should you when you can BLAME it on a woman. Little boy.

You Fred, are inferior to ME!

I can understand your attitude.
And I agree that men SHOULD be held responsible.
But the reality is that too many women think they are men and can sleep around with no consequences like we can.
WOMEN need to take a more responsible role.

[marby]

Women are responsible, they hold more power than you do and this is the reason you are jealous and spiteful towards them.

[Cambridge]

Yer, I have to admit Fred that I can’t sympathize with you even tho I agree with a lot of what you say. Let’s see…why is that?

Well, you admit a double standard…you admit the travails that are placed upon women…you even admit that life is sometimes unfair. But you inevitably go to the testosterone corner in every debate.

I think there is more to be gained by trying to get into the head of your opposition; that means, emotionally as well as intellectually. Confrontation is not a big deal these days. To the manipulative as well as the considerate, understanding is power. Unfortunately, if you want to be a power broker, power is also transformative: it changes minds. People who understand power today, realize that it will affect them as well as the opposition. Negotiation from a staunch position is soooo passé. Understanding is the place that you can’t reach. Give it a try, sometime. Lignten up.

[Fred75]

Yer, I have to admit Fred that I can’t sympathize with you even tho I agree with a lot of what you say. Let’s see…why is that?

Well, you admit a double standard…you admit the travails that are placed upon women…you even admit that life is sometimes unfair. But you inevitably go to the testosterone corner in every debate.

I think there is more to be gained by trying to get into the head of your opposition; that means, emotionally as well as intellectually. Confrontation is not a big deal these days. To the manipulative as well as the considerate, understanding is power. Unfortunately, if you want to be a power broker, power is also transformative: it changes minds. People who understand power today, realize that it will affect them as well as the opposition. Negotiation from a staunch position is soooo passé. Understanding is the place that you can’t reach. Give it a try, sometime. Lignten up.

What do you want then?
Emasculated men?

Even with emasculated men your still going to have unwed mother raising children by themselves and having abortions for birth control.

Feminazi's HURT you and society more than men do.
It's why there are so many GIRLS getting abortions and having babies without fathers.

[Cambridge]

No, that is precisely the opposite of what I am saying. Ok, here’s men: they can be (1) testosterone laden beings full of verve and fight; or they can be (2) intelligent, temperate and calm. Let’s think Darwin. What wins today? The first option likely ends you up in prison. The second is what any woman wants: it is the signal of strength in the modern era. If the female goes for strength, you figure it out. A smart guy gets the attention; a dumb guy gets nothing.

If you are really concerned about children who are fatherless, why don’t you subscribe to a picture of a male that is successful in the 21st-century? That boy is going to be there, and be a role model for the kid in a way that is successful. And that boy is not going to be the macho picture that you continually paint.

[Cambridge]

xxx

[VampireMistress]

I think if it was a long time in the past then it is irrelevant, especially if it wasnt his child who was aborted.

If he was to ask directly, then honesty is the best way. But otherwise, it shouldnt matter.

[Cambridge]

Soz, VM. I think it does matter. There's this tendency to believe, 'well, abortion doesn't matter because it's merely a kind of birth control.' Well, it is more than that.
What difference does time make?

Are you saying if it is long enough in the past, it didn't happen? I think if you don't have an open communication about it, it's a form of fraud. But I also think that goes for the guy, as well.