xxintergirlxxy wrote:
It is completely at variance with the truth. Historical records and eye-witnesses at the time prove conclusively that it is a load of bollicks
according to gardner, strict codes of discipline were laid down for a messianic heir, whereby the heir was instructed to remain celibate for years at a time. he wasn't entirely celibate however, as he was expected to sire a son.Chris advocated celibacy as the highest state of human existence.Would He then advocate something He could not achieve Himself?
Jesus loves you but I'm his favorite
xxintergirlxxy wrote:There is too much evidence in the Old Testament to support the coming of Christ. Ezekiel, Mikah, Jeremiah <A HREF="http://www.femalefirst.co.uk/catalog/default.php/cPath/23_52">hose</A>, Isaiah, the book of psalms, to name but a few
Are you seriously suggesting He staged His scourging? That was the standard precursor to crucifixion where each length of leather had steel barbs in it to rip open the flesh. After scourging, a man's back would be completely stripped of flesh, flayed. You can't be serious!
Crucifixion is a very painful, barbaric death. Are you serious that He staged execution in the hope that He would survive it?
came to remove the bodies, His side was pierced with a lance and out flowed water [ie plasma, that comes out when there is no longer any blood left in the body].[p/quote]
LG: it was blood, not water. it demonstrated tvascular activity continued, which showed that Jesus was alive not dead.If He intended to survive it, why did He commit His mother to the care of John? Surely He wouldv'e looked after her himself in His old age.
he was going away to lead a monastic life for years.There is nothing in Scripture to say He was to have a son or that He would marry.
LG: there is, but it is codified: "let them hear who have ears" (or something like that". Jesus is codified as "the word of God". the new testament tells us that "the word of God increased". the part where Mary washes Jesus' feet is a marriage ritual.No- Judas was a political revolutionary.Judas was a common thief, he used to help himself to the common purse.i know nothing about jewish accounts of the crucifixion. the guard might have meant that his excommunication had been countermanded.How do you account for the Jews? They are not Christian so why would their historical account support the view that He died and remained in the grave for at least two whole days? What about the Roman Guard at the request of the Jews to prevent 'His body being stolen and it claimed He had risen'?Why immediately after His resurrection did He tell people not to touch Him as He had not yet fully ascended?
LG: he told his wife not to touch him because of the strict messianic rules governing bodily contact.What about the Anglic witnesses in the empty tomb? 'He is not here He is risen and has gone before you into Gallilee'!
resurrection had a secular meaning, not a supernatural one.How do you account for the testimony of St Paul? [ Phillipians 2:6-11. Paul was around within a short period of the Resurrection. Peter and Paul were preaching the Risen Christ and His ascention to His Father. How could they if He was still on the scene.
LG: Paul deviated from Jesus' own Nazarene preachings by telling poeple that Jesus was God, something Jesus himself never claimed. Paul is the founder Christianity.Are you seriously suggesting that Christ eluded His OWN family and Disciples for over a century because He had eloped with Mary Magdalen who was still around witnessing to His resurrection.She could not be in two places at once. So, did He live without her for the first 100-years?
i have no idea what point you are making.If He was not who He claimed to be [and He couldn't if He conned all His Disciples] then His mission was in vain.
xxintergirlxxy wrote::lol: How do you expain the Immaculate Conception?
You say Jesus never claimed to be God. He never claimed to be anything BUT GOD!!!
conspiracy theorists argue that noone would be sanctioned for crucifixion for mere blasphemy. he was trying to cause insurrection to free judea from roman oppression.That was the reason WHY the Jews wanted and plotted to kill Him because to claim to be God was blasphemy. They constantly accused Him of blaspheming by claiming to be equal to God.
dunno.Why when Jesus asked His Apostles who He was, and they said: Elijah or one of the prophets, did He turn to Simon and say 'who do you say I am'?
Christ = nominal style for the patrilineal heair of the house of Judah.When Peter replied: 'You are the Christ the Son of the Living God [living God was very significant for the Jews], why did Christ say in reply: 'Simon you are well blessed because it was not flesh and blood that revealed this to you but my Father who is in heaven, therefore I say to you, on you I will build my Church and the gates of death and evil will never prevail against it'! Why did He claim to be the Christ?
see answer above. he knew that one had been predicted who would free rome from oppression, and felt he should fulfil that role.All of the prophets predicted the coming of the Christ. Why did He claim to be the Christ?
there were concerns over Jesus' legitmacy as he was born in March rather than September. Joseph had the option of putting Jesus away to be raised in a monastery, but this made little sense as he was in the royal line. Gabriel sanctioned Jesus' birth, in spite of the fact the rules concerning his conception had been broken.Why when Joseph was planning to marry Mary, when he decided to send her away because she was pregnant, did an Angel appear to him and tell him 'not to worry as the child she was carrying was not conceived by the urge of sex but by the power of God? Why did the angel tell him that if it was not true?
How do you account for the angelic Host? What about Cherubim and Seraphim [legions of hight ranking Angels]
Jesus Himself was the LAST of the line! If He had children, they too would be descendents of the Prophetic line. Why were they conspicuously silent? Over 2000-years and not a whisper?
Where are they today? Where are they? If someone could stand up and claim to be a descendent of The Christ, they would become zillionaires overnight, everyone would want to read the book and see the film. Where are they?
he was saying Jesus was Godly, imho. how do you account for the biblical claim that "the word of god increased"?xxintergirlxxy wrote:
John [the diciple whom Jesus was closest] in his opening to his gospel said 'In the beginning the Word was with God and the Word WAS God. He existed before all else was made'. Are you suggesting John was wrong too!
there is a claim that he was actually much older. he spent his childhood in monastic environments. he was in his early twenties during that exchange, if i remember the theory rightly.Left behind in the temple at age 10, 'his mother was worried about Him and going back to find Him he said: 'did you not know that I must be about my fathers business'!
see explanation for the phrase "son of God" above.In the temple when he turned over the stall holders tables he said: this is my Fathers house and you have turned it into a den of thieves'. Therefore is claiming to be the Son of God.
Eye witnesses including the convert [the Centurian] witnessed that when they came to His body He was already dead. So they pierced his side with a lance and out flowed water [they didn't know it was plasma, they didnt have modern biology!!
he was revived that evening, by simon in the tomb. the stone was rolled back on the sabbath.When He was buried, His mother was with Him. Thye had to bury Him quickely as it was preparation day [the sabbath, after sunset]. A huge stone was rolled against the entrance. You are saying that a man who was crucified, who the Roman execution party [who were used to executions] were so concerned in case He died on the way, then underwent crucifixtion, lay in the grave for over two days, with a Roman guard outside, some how recovered without any medical intervention.
he predicted he would be crucified, not killed. crucifixion was spiritual death by decree, with death on the fourth day.How do you explain His OWN prophecy that He was to be killed and on the third day rise again?
How do you explain the continued presence and intervention of His Holy Spirit which continues, of whom I am an eye-witness?
L.G.: it's if he died that his apostles would have been left high and dry - they would have scattered and fled. his survival gave hismission a new lease of life.Why would He have eloped to leave his apostles witnessing for His mission, most of whom suffered the same fate crucifiction. Why would the Son of God the last of the line of the messianic prophets lie?
the miracles have a mindane explanation. making the blind see was a code for introducing gentiles to the doctrinal "Way". Raising Simon Zelotes from the dead meant countermanding his excommunication and restoring him to spiritual and political life.If He was not the Son of God how did He cure so many, make the lame walk, the blind see, even raise the dead?
the Church as we know it today follows Paul's teachings, not the original Nazarene Jewish teachings of Jesus and his brother James/JOseph of Arimathea.How do you explain the Church surviving 2000-years of persecution and policical effort to destroy it?
I don't know these people. could you say what point you're trying to make?How do you account for St Anthony and the Child Jesus? What about Padre Pio? What about Clement, Cornilous, Sixtus, Linus, what about Joseph His custodian? A devout Jewish man of the inner temple. Do you think that Jesus would have deceived His own father with whom He worked for over 20-years?What about His mother witnessing to His mission for Human Redemption?
he could control his bodily urges. When trying for a child he was permitted sexual relations for only two weeks a year. If his wife conceived, he was then forbidden from having sex for either a three or a six year period, depending on the sex of the child.Why did He advocate celibacy as the highest state but only for those who were strong? Why did He model celibacy when as you allege, he couldn't control His bodily urges?
these were part of the marriage preparations. as per the song of solomon.You do not know about Jewish Weddings if you think that Mary Magdalene washing His feet with her tear and drying them with her hair, is a marriage ceremony!
he was seen to enter a monastery. his apostles were sad because they would miss him. i don't know why the priest said what he said.The Messiah spoken of, was the Son of God. He fullfilled the prophecies. He was SEEN to ascend. How do you explain when He ascended and His apostles saw Him go, feeling very saddened, the angel said: 'Why are you so sad, you will see Him come back at eh end of time'. Why would he have said this?
What other human institution has survived for 1000 years let alone 2000?
What about exorcists who cast out powerful demons in the Name of Jesus of Nasereth? Why would a being vastly superior to us obey the wish of a mere man? Why would they? They would tell him to get stuffed. But on the Name of Jesus of Nasereth even the Demons obey, which is exactly what Christ said would happen.

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